Transcript of interview with Kah Yong
V – Vanessa is speaking
K – Kah Yong is speaking
K: So I was saying this device is useful when there’s no sound. Even with sound, not all the lights are equipped with the card scanner which will turn the sound on after 9pm
V: Mm!
K: You know what I’m talking about right?
V: Yeah, I know. Just now Lyn told me.
K: It is useful. I can see some problems when using your device. First, the blind person will have to point the device to scan for the lights right? If you can’t see, you won’t know where to point.
V: We assume that the blind person is able to navigate. Like, you guys already know how to navigate so we just want to put that little bit extra. The assumption is that you know how to move around, we don’t want to be go “They don’t know how to move around”.
K: Ok so you see, at the T junctions, imagine I’m at the T junctions. There are lights above and in front of me, across the road. You’re going to scan that one right? On the left hand side, there is also lights on that side because it’s a T-junction. I have to stand at the right angle. If I stand at the wrong angle, then I will scan on the wrong light. I’m supposed to scan the correct light, if I scan the wrong one, then I’ll be in trouble. Because I won’t assume that its green, I can cross. Did you get what I mean?
V: Yeah so you got to face the correct side
K: That is very important. How will you ensure I am facing the right direction?
V: For us, we’re going to put a GPS on the device. The GPS will help to locate where you are. We’ll be able to programme the GPS to know where you want to go, it will let you know which traffic light it is. Will that be good?
K: Yeah. Ok let me tell you another problem. There are 2 types of lights. One for the driver and one for the pedestrians. They might not appear at the same time. The lights might be green for the driver but might not be green for the pedestrian. It might be scanning on the driver lights and might say that its safe to cross.
V: We think already, can already.
K: Sure ah?
V: Yes! The algorithm does this thing called template matching. So we take as many traffic lights as possible, for pedestrian lights. We made the machine recognise only the pedestrian lights
K: The traffic light is only lights, no bus, no figures, right?
V: For the cars, there are no figures. For the pedestrian lights, there is a figure of the man. It will only recognise the man then the light. It will see the man first then it will see the light colour, then it will let you know if its safe.
V: Do you use public transport very often?
K: Yes, I do.
V: Is it easy to get around Singapore?
K: Quite ok, quite ok, especially familiar places, familiar places even if not in Singapore is also ok. Singapore is easier, because its quite safe.
V: That’s true.
K: The drains have railings to cover and block you, the pavements are neatly laid out and at every turning points, theres a tactile to let you know that you’re walking on to a road
V: Do cars usually stop for you?
K: Yes, when they see us holding a cane, they’ll usually stop.
V: Do you use a lot of technology?
K: Yes, I use an Iphone
V: Lyn said that the Iphone is very good now.
K: The Iphone is good because it can tell you when the bus is coming, there is a GPS, there are GPS apps that people create for the blind for travelling around. Some of the apps are called “BlindSquare”, another is called “Ariani”. Even if we use mainstream apps like “Move it” for travelling, it will let us know where to alight from the bus stop with advanced notice.
V: There is a voice assistence now right?
K: The Iphone is not voice assisted, but it will voice out what is on the screen when we touch it
V: For the device we were talking about; do you think it’d be better if we do sound or vibration?
K: I think vibration. Or why not have both? Vibration might be easily ignored, you may not notice it, sound if the place is noisy, you also may not notice it, so why not have two? Like the phone have both vibration and sound. It could just be a “beep beep” sound. It doesn’t need to be talking, so long as its distinguishable. If you want it to be fanciful, then you can put in someone talking.
K: And also I think for your device, you should put some disclaimer: “Use at your own risk”
*Both laughs*
K: Because you’re helping some people cross the road, even a lot of GPS apps do it. You cannot rely totally on devices, you need to observe the surrounding
V: I was telling Lyn the device would either be on a cane or something that you strap on your waist or something on your chest. She said she would prefer it on the body because the cane is very flimsy. What do you think?
K: On the body bah. I think something you can wear over your neck. If it was a small device, you could put it in your pocket, whenever you needed, you can just pull it out and use it. I also don’t really want it on the cane, because I don’t want to add weight to it
K: Will the device tell me where to go towards the line for big junctions? Because if there are many lanes, I might walk in a crooked line.
V: No, the device will current is intended to only let you know when it is safe to cross, but would you prefer if there is something like that?
K: Yeah, if you go in the correct direction, it will give a sound. But if you veer off, it will give another sound. It helps you to walk straight. It is good especially for roads where there are many lanes. Some of the GPS have this feature, to help you turn left or right.
V: But for small junctions where there are right turning cars, do you find trouble travelling those kind? Usually cars will stop right?
K: Yeah they will usually stop.
V: So you prefer something on the body right?
K: Yes, or something that is handheld
V: Do you see any other problems?
K: Rain, is it waterproof?
V: We could make it water proof.
K: It is battery operated right?
V: The issues with charging should be ok right?
K: It should be ok, the buttons-
V: There are no buttons.
K: No on or off buttons?
V: No.
K: But if you do one, just make sure you make it big enough. Some are too tiny. Enough for the hands to feel. You want to make it accessible to all age groups. The elderly might be not so dexterous, so might want to make it easy to switch on and off
K: Also, make it not so expensive.
V: I don’t think it will be. The parts we spent money on are not that expensive. We programmed the thing so everything 是我们的功劳 (Translation from Mandarin: it is our work)
K: Wow!
V: We didn’t buy any expensive parts.
K: Did you all research is there anything like that in the world?
V: Yeah, we tried, but there isn’t.
K: You could patent it. It could be a business
V: If it works. We tried it last week and its working a bit already, but we’re not sure for big junctions because we tried for small junctions.
K: Try for a bigger road, where there are many lanes, have to try. This is good for big junctions. You know, usually for big junctions there is no sound. It is a weird thing.
V: But its so hard to cross.
K: Big junctions like orchard sound don’t have sound. If you want us to try it, you could come back to us
V: If I’m confident, then I’ll come back
K: If it works, you try on the big junction first then you come back. Maybe someday “A group of NTU students invented something” in the newspaper
V: We hope la
*Both Laughs*
K: Maybe your name appears in the newspaper, helping the blind people. How many people in your group?
V: Four of us.
K: Usually students that come, they invent something that is available. We don’t really need it.
V: Exactly. That is why we thought of this. It sounds really simple, but we realise there is a lot of things that we don’t know.
K: Especially if there are lights for the drivers and for the pedestrians.
V: Singapore also has a lot of green cars and red cars
K: You have to be able to differentiate the lights. Does it make a difference when its in the day or night?
V: It does, so we have two different programmes for day and night too.
K: About in between, say the evening?
V: Its been fine so far in the evening
K: How about rainy days, with dark clouds.
V: We haven’t tried during rainy days.
K: Because during rainy days, there is rain to block the camera, making it foggy. So you have to try it in different weathers. Foggy days or when the haze comes, will it work? Just ways it might block your progress.
V: Right now, we are just trying on day or night, small steps.
K: The signal is either sound of vibrations, or both.
V: If you put audio, do you need an earpiece?
K: No need. It is troublesome, if you put earphone, we need our ears to observe what is around us. So it just makes sound from it, it should be enough.
V: I will try to work on the GPS thing to make sure the machine knows which traffic light to face.
K: Oh, if there isn’t this, never mind, because you want to keep your device simple. Even if you’re in a new place, we usually will ask people for help. “Do I cross this or that junction? The left or the front one?” The worry is that you’ll point in the wrong direction. What about the angle?
V: It will be around body height?
K: What about children?
V: Children is the issue we’re working on right now too. But at my height, it still works though I’m quite short.
K: So do you have to be a certain height?
V: So long as the camera can see the light, it would work. You can’t face the device down.
K: Facing forward?
V: Yes, facing forward. If you stand normally, it would work.
K: Do I have to stand more to the right or left?
V: No, so long as the camera can see the light. As much as we want to, we don’t want to change anything from your routine.
K: For faulty traffic lights, you scan nothing right?
V: Singapore doesn’t have much faulty lights I think.
K: Right, even if it was faulty, there’d be a traffic police there
V: Are there any other problems you see?
V: No, I’ve said most of it.
V: I’ll take note of GPS thing, hopefully we can do it. If it works, we can come back.
K: Yeah, let us try it. We have a few traffic lights here, small ones. But for big junctions, we might have to go to another place.
V: Its alright, we can try on small roads first, that’s if it works. Can I get your name?
K: Kah Yong, *Proceeds to spell name*
V: Okay.
K: Let us know, we are very excited if it works, maybe it can help.
V: If it doesn’t work, I’ll let you know too.
K: Lyn would like to know too
V: Yeah, I had a very fun time with her.
K: She helped you to cross the traffic light right?
V: Yup, but its not easy.
K: Inside there is just a small lane. That is why for big junctions, it would be great if the device could tell us when to cross and how to walk, it would be good.
V: What do you mean by many lanes?
K: Like Orchard Road against a small road. Orchard road might have six lanes, it takes very long to cross and it is wide and you might have a tendency to walk towards one side, because there is nothing to guide us to walk straight, to the left or to the right. You merely hear the sound from the other side, and there is a lot of sound around us. Your device could help us home in to the traffic light, to walk straight, understand right?
V: Yup.
K: Ok just keep us informed.
V: Ok thank, you very much